Starting/Battery Problem

[Harleyboy1973]

Hi all,

I've been puzzling over a starting issue for some time and have tried a few things out over the weekend and I wondered if anyone could make any sense of it.

The day after I came back from a trip to Europe last year I wheeled the bike (1993 fatboy) out ready to clean off all the shite. I tried to start her up for some reason and she wouldn't start. I rocked the bike back and forth and then she started so I put this down to starter motor issue. I had it checked out by HD dealer and no issue found and I didn't have the problem again for somtime.

Intermitantly I'm now getting the same issue, although the rocking the bike doesn't help. Sometime's she will fire up fine but is always hesitant on the first push. Other times she will start but there is a horrible mechanical graunching sound prior to starting. More recently on 2 occassions she hasn't started at all. The first time was 10 minutes before the MOT which was a bit annoying!

This weekend I have spent a bit of time cleaning up the main earthing points under the seat, which didn't make any difference so I then went out and bought an optimate III battery optimiser. Once installed the yellow light came on indicating the battary needed some charge. It took 8 hours of charging before the green light came on.

This morning I wheeled her out and she started fine, although still wouldn't start on the first push. Whilst I was out I stopped and then tried to start her again. It took 5 or 6 attempts to get started. After a 20 mile trip I returned home and tried to start her a few more times. The majority of these attempts had the horrible graunching noise again but she started every time.

I had read on here somewhere to check the regulator by measuring the voltage from each pin and ground. I did this and found each pin to be 0.25V which I take it means a duff regulator.

But is that my problem. Its worth mentioning that the battery has been replaced recently with a gel battery but during fitting it was connected up the wrong way briefly (its a long and embarrassing story) but this was sometime after these problems started.

I then plugged her back in to the optimiser and it is back on yellow and charging? The battery shouldn't need topping up after a 20 mile ride should it??

Can any body shed any light on what might be the problem.

Thanks very much.

Matt

[Ming the Merciless]

Originally Posted by Harleyboy1973

I then plugged her back in to the optimiser and it is back on yellow and charging? The battery shouldn't need topping up after a 20 mile ride should it?

Hi Matt, there are many better qualified than me to advise on your starter problem, but I can tell you about your battery charger.

The Optimate will always go onto yellow when first connected, even immediately after a run, as that is the test phase (30 minutes minimum until green). It will often take many hours to go green, as the charge is so low (around 0.6A) so don't worry about time taken.

[BaZa®]

I reckon you may need a new starter motor clutch.

Also see here: Troubleshooting your charging system

I am on my 3rd one in just under 50.000 miles!

From our search engine **Starter Clutch**

[Gray]

Originally Posted by Harleyboy1973

but there is a horrible mechanical graunching sound prior to starting.

I reckon that Baz is right on the money. Those clutches have roller bearings in them that jam one way and freewheel the other. If they get flats on the rollers they make this really horrible painful screeching graunching noise as the rollers slide. A classic for Ironheads which are prone to seizing the advance mechanism and then trying to start on full advance the engine kicks back and destroys the starter clutch. Sort of an XLH version of XLCH sportster knee.

[Harleyboy1973]

Thanks for the comments, is a starter motor clutch expensive?

What about the regulator issue. I've now reading elsewhere on the site that the reading I'm getting from the regulator is correct????

Thanks for the help guys.

Matt

[bimsb6]

they are not dear but youhave to strip all the primary off to do it ,the one on my fxr went exactly the same as yours ,once off you may find the internals are cracked which shows up when you load the rollers allowing the rollers to slip on the shaft instead of gripping it .there are pattern ones available on certain models of hd a toyota car one fits and is way cheaper than a genuine item .

[bimsb6]

http://www.harley-davidson-hangout.c...ead-125-a.html

[grbrown]

Before you get involved with the starter I suggest you check the battery closely. The ghastly noises could be the solenoid repeatedly trying to engage and failing, due to low voltage from the battery. I have suffered both that and the starter clutch failing, which I have also changed.

Also check the rectifier unit. I have replaced mine, because although it was still providing a charge it was below par, so the battery was not being properly maintained while riding. That may be a contributory factor to the starting problem.

My last two batteries lasted just over two years and seven years, despite both being high profile brands, so don't trust yours to be tip-top!

[girlyglide]

Originally Posted by Harleyboy1973

Hi all,

Other times she will start but there is a horrible mechanical graunching sound prior to starting.

Are you talking a definite horrible metallic graunching or is it just the starter clutch failing to engage properly? (more of a "banging noise")

Originally Posted by Harleyboy1973

This morning I wheeled her out and she started fine, although still wouldn't start on the first push.

Do you mean to say that nothing happened at all on the first push? No click, no noise whatsoever?

Originally Posted by Harleyboy1973

Whilst I was out I stopped and then tried to start her again. It took 5 or 6 attempts to get started. After a 20 mile trip I returned home and tried to start her a few more times. The majority of these attempts had the horrible graunching noise again but she started every time.

It's hard to say exactly what the problem is without hearing it as one mans bang is another mans graunch.

Put your battery on charge for a good 24 hours if using an Optimate and then do a voltage check and alternator output check. That will tell you if the battery is holding charge and the alternator is supplying sufficient charge.

If you do mean a horrible graunching noise as I would describe it then I think I'd go with the starter clutch as has been mentioned previously.

[Harleyboy1973]

Thanks guys, looks like I've got an exciting evening ahead then. Just me and the multimeter!

Phil, thanks for the comments. It sounds like a horrible graunchy noise to me but like you say, thats just my opinion and I ain't no mechanic. I wouldn't know what the starter clutch failing would sound like anyway. The first push of the starter issue - its not a click, it sounds like she's going to start for a split second and then nothing. Second push and away she goes. Before I put the optimser she would eventually end up with just a click, click, click and nothing. Ended up having to bump start to get to the MOT!

I'll carry out the tests outlined from this thread and report back.

Tahnks very much.
Matt