New to group riding ?

[dpb-RK]

As the season is almost here and we have one or two rideout virgins amongst us.

Group Riding

There are several ways to ride safely in a group, this is just one and it is intended as a guide only.

The group would normally select a leader and a sweeper. The leader should be familiar with the route and any intended stopping points. The sweeper rides at the rear. The leader and the sweeper should be in contact via bike-to-bike radio if possible.

First an explanation or two.
The ‘inside line’ the part of the nearside lane that a cars nearside wheel would normally run on.
The ‘outside line’ the part of the nearside lane that a cars offside wheel would normally run on.

A staggered formation would normally be adopted. If the road becomes ‘twisty’ then a single file is preferred but with a greater distance between riders.

To create a staggered formation the leader normally rides on the inside line, the second bike is on the outside line, and the third is on the inside line and so on to the sweeper.
The staggered formation is used for three main reasons.
It allows for a safe stopping distance between a bike and the one immediately in front whilst maintaining a tight group.
The vacant centre of the lane allows all riders an early view of any indication or hand signals that are being ‘passed down the line’ and of any obstacles that need to be avoided.
It discourages the drivers of other vehicles from ‘pushing’ into the line.
When the formation needs to overtake another vehicle then the leader positions him/herself on the outside line (ready to overtake). It is obvious that the leader has just positioned his/her bike directly in front of the second bike, which is now too close to the leader, so the second bike must change to the inside line, the third to the outside and so on back to the sweeper.

All this sounds terribly complicated, in practice it is simply each rider changing his riding line by 5feet or so, however, it is not intended that this manoeuvre should become a regular part of rideouts.
In traffic the leader would normally stay on the outside line (so he/she is ready to overtake). The leader would not normally change lines unless road conditions dictate otherwise.
Using this method you can see that overtaking can be completed as safely and simply as possible.

In a staggered formation the gap between riders on the same line should be the recognised safe distance of 2/3seconds. This means that at 60mph the distance between riders is twice that which it is at 30mph.

When the group goes to single file the gaps should be increased according to speed.
A single file is adopted when the road becomes ‘twisty’ to allow riders to use the whole of the lane when negotiating bends without riding on ‘someone else’s road’. It is the responsibility of the group members to reform the stagger according to the road position of the leader when the road straightens.

The leader should always remember that the sweeper needs to keep up with the group so his/her speed must be kept down to a gentle cruising pace. The leader must not 'race' away from obstacles such as roundabouts and junctions as this will 'stretch' the group and can lead to members 'dropping off' the back.

Always be aware that other bikes surround you.
Look before any manoeuvre and indicate early, a hand signal also works well in certain circumstances.

Normally there should be NO overtaking within the group.
Nobody should lark about while riding, there will be plenty of time for that when we get where we are going, yaahooooo.

If you as a rider ‘fancy’ a quick rideout then join the group towards the rear, if you ‘fancy’ a cruise then join near the front.


There are other more complicated ways to ride as a group but I feel that keeping things simple and safe are more important than being ‘slick’.
This is intended as a starting point only. Issues such as breakdown procedure, signals used by the group, signing the route, the responsibilities of the group leader, the responsibilities of the sweeper and a multitude of other details need to be discussed by your group.
Ride Safe

[BaZa®]

I have always said don't ride in a group until you have at least 1k under your belt on your bike if you are a new rider this also covers the 1st service on a new bike not limiting you to 50-60mph max speed.

Getting to know your bike and how it handles is far safer on your own or with one other rider. Riding in a group is a different game altogether.
Dangerous for the new rider that has no experience, apart from a course and a test at the end of it.

As far as overtaking I have asked people in the past TO OVERTAKE if, and only if the rider in front is lagging behind and leaving a gap that a car or even worse a coach/lorry could come into the group.

That person will then eventually be at the end of the line (where the pace is even faster!!!) and have to make a decision are they ready for a group ride out yet?

I am not saying leave them behind but maybe one person to drop off stay with them and have a chat when they get to the original destination.

[Trouble 61]

Originally Posted by BaZa

I have always said don't ride in a group until you have at least 1k under your belt on your bike if you are a new rider this also covers the 1st service on a new bike not limiting you to 50-60mph max speed.

Getting to know your bike and how it handles is far safer on your own or with one other rider. Riding in a group is a different game altogether.
Dangerous for the new rider that has no experience, apart from a course and a test at the end of it.

As far as overtaking I have asked people in the past TO OVERTAKE if, and only if the rider in front is lagging behind and leaving a gap that a car or even worse a coach/lorry could come into the group.

That person will then eventually be at the end of the line (where the pace is even faster!!!) and have to make a decision are they ready for a group ride out yet?

I am not saying leave them behind but maybe one person to drop off stay with them and have a chat when they get to the original destination.

As a new-ish rider who ventured out on her first group run today, I agree with everything you said BaZa. A totally different riding experience. I have ridden 1k on the Sportie but I still found it rather daunting being in a group.

[sKorch]

I always think the leader of a group should take up a position on the road which enables them to see asfar back in the group as possible. This , to my mind, means being on the outside not the nearside.

Thus, the leader can assess how much the group has lengthened and change speed to bring them all together again.(very much like a Mother Duck)

positioning in the group is very hit-n-miss on the first attempt, but a group should all respond to each other and KEEP as a group, slowing down/speeding up as the group works together. Tis no use watching the bike in front if the bike behind you has got problems and is left behind.

This has come from 10yrs Army driving!!( boy, do you stick together then!!)

[snowflake]

Originally Posted by sKorch

I always think the leader of a group should take up a position on the road which enables them to see asfar back in the group as possible. This , to my mind, means being on the outside not the nearside.

Thus, the leader can assess how much the group has lengthened and change speed to bring them all together again.(very much like a Mother Duck)

positioning in the group is very hit-n-miss on the first attempt, but a group should all respond to each other and KEEP as a group, slowing down/speeding up as the group works together. Tis no use watching the bike in front if the bike behind you has got problems and is left behind.

This has come from 10yrs Army driving!!( boy, do you stick together then!!)

Well done sKorch!

I myself prefer the leader to be on the inside line, at the end of the day if he has servicable mirrors he should be able to see wherever, but some bikes dont always have them (that's based on my 10 yrs of riding chops) and the right shoulder is the easiest and best to look over...unlesss you're abroad...then that's another story....

I have been touring with large groups of riders on a wide variety of bikes and with riders of different ability and agree with everything dpb-RK has said; with us the sweeper has the hardest (but possible the best) job.
There have been times when the group has been split up riding through towns/built up areas in Europe where there are lots of traffic lights and roudabouts. This causes all sorts of delays, and the last thing that you want to do is stop and wait every time someone gets held up on a junction or a traffic light (riding with over 25 bikes makes this even more of a 'mare ).

To combat this we developed on a theme already out there with the big clubs/MCs and that is the marker drill.

The sweeper is always the same person so that everyone knows who is the tail end charlie, come what may. As each rider passes through a junction/choke point they check to see if they are the last one through, if so, then they stop and mark the point until they see the sweeper, when they move on and take up position as the rider in front of him/her. This sounds really complicated but with practice and experience works really well. In Italy a few years ago we had 28 bikes and worked out that at one point the line stretched for over 5 miles (intercoms don't tend to work that far making this system all the more useful) and not one rider got lost or left behind. Once all bikers catch up again on the open road then the normal speed can be resumed by the leader.

As I say, this is based on over 10 years of Touring with large groups of riders (and 16 years of being sat in Army convoys!! ) and is just my penneth worth.

I'm off to Spain this year and we currently have 25 people going!!

[snowflake]

I feel a bit of a dipstick after having read another post in this topic:

http://www.harley-davidson-hangout.c...ad.php?t=44348

[sKorch]

Don't worry,


as the wife says,



you can never tell anything enough times.


( but I call it nagging )

[bazereid]

Anyone who wants to see the theories put into practice should do the rideout at Talgarth a week Saturday. I have planned a scenic route into wild?? central Wales of about 85 miles with good open roads and a mixture of twisty narrow bits to test your riding skills (not to much).
I keep it simple - me at the front as I know where I`m going mostly, one at the back who thinks he knows where I`m going and half a dozen press ganged blockers to do the junctions as we progress. They will have been briefed by me before we move off. As far as possible I choose people who have done it before and know the routine. This has always worked very well in the past with up to 60 bikes in the convoy (so far) in our area as we have a minimum of traffic lights and busy junctions.
See you there, don`t miss it.

[S.T.Chapman]

any suicide kamikazi sheep en-route

[bazereid]

Yeh millions. they have been briefed to keep you on your toes- concentrating on blind bends, steep hills and blind humps on single track back roads. And!! they are s!!!!t hot at knowing who`s been on the piss the night before.