The Harley-Davidson Riders Club Great Britain

+++ HARLEY-DAVIDSON RIDERS CLUB GREAT BRITAIN - ESTABLISHED 1949 +++


Go Back   The Harley-Davidson Riders Club Great Britain > Technical > Tech-Tips
©2000-2012 Harley-Davidson Riders Club

Tech-Tips Useful Tips

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17-09-2004, 02:09 AM
kiwidave's Avatar
kiwidave kiwidave is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,286
Troubleshooting your charging system

CARRY A GREAT TOOL

Buy a £10-£15 voltmeter from any car parts place and take it with you everywhere. If it won't help you because you never break down, it will help the next guy. Change the meter battery every year.


ROUTINE CHECKS FROM THE SAFETY OF YOUR GARAGE

At winter's end and even now and again during the season, get that meter out.

With battery in place on bike, put the red lead to battery positive terminal and the black lead to earth terminal, after setting the meter to the DC voltage figure just higher than those which you are looking for (usually ''20'')

You should get a reading of 12.6-12.9 DC volts. Any less and you will encounter starting problems - most of the capacity of a Harley's big battery is for the starter motor. (Kick start only? You're still good to go until it drops below around 11 volts!)

I did read once that if 12.9 volts is a 100% charged battery, 12.5 is about 50% charged. Sobering....don't think that 12.2 is good. It's ferked.

If battery needs charging, use an OptiMate or similar - these deliver a SLOW trickle charge and can recover even a deeply discharged battery.

(Fast charging using car-type chargers will shorten the life of your battery. You should disconnect your battery if not riding over winter, and preferably leave it on an OptiMate or similar. Batteries do discharge slowly over time, especially when hooked up.)

Check on....with the bike running, confirm that the correct charge is getting to the battery - place meter leads as before and at fast idle the voltage should read around 13.5 volts DC.

Rev the bike - the voltage should go no higher than around 14.8. Fifteen volts and above is a no-no - this means the regulator is not regulating and the extra voltage will surely boil the battery dry while you're out on the road. Even refilling can be pointless due to plate damage caused by boiling....

Your regulator needs an excellent connection to ground to regulate, i.e. shunt the excess alternator current to earth.

Some regulators are earthed by body by being securely connected to the frame, some through a wire to frame (which acts as ground in either case). Check this connection if you are reading too much (15 or over) DC voltage at the battery.

Use star-type washers that 'dig in' with either method - AFTER removing any paint or powdercoat. Bare metal gives the right connection.

If the voltage does not rise, that's not good either. Check it a second way by turning on the lights - they should brighten slightly as you rev the bike because the charging voltage is rising to the ideal 14.5-14.8.

If not, the connection from regulator to battery may have failed (see below).

And there's more.....If you are getting normal charging voltage but when you rev harder said voltage plummets, even to zero, in all likelihood the regulator is breaking down at the higher rpms. Replace.

Also, if the regulator is trying to charge into a defective battery (and cells or plates can fail without warning due to age or too much current coming in) it will immediately go to max output, then if it continues at this level, the output circuit will fail, which renders the regulator useless.

Tricky blighter, Johnny Regulator......


BIKE DIED ON THE ROAD?

It's very often an electrical/charging fault.

If exhaust bangs and pops and makes firecracker sounds before the bike stops dead, the first likely culprit is/are loose battery terminal/s. Always carry a 10mm ring spanner for your battery bolts - often the ONLY metric bolt on your Harley.

If they are tight, check the one critical wire that provides power - it goes from the regulator all the way up to or right next to the battery positive terminal. If that connection fails, the bike will run on battery power alone until that's all used up and the battery has almost certainly trashed itself trying to keep you in the wind despite being cut adrift from the charging system.

If those connections and all other relevant ones (Kill switch wires intact at switch inside handlebar? Main circuit breaker dead, or pinging due to short circuit on another wire?) are all good, proceed....

Turn the key off. Place voltmeter to correct DC voltage scale and put leads across battery terminals.

It's gonna show far less than the magical 12.6 or so volts ... OR .. it will show ''good'' voltage until you turn the key ON and the voltage will plummet (even down to ZERO volts), showing the battery can't hold a load. You won't even get a peep out of the horn. Turning key on should only drop the reading a smidge, if that...

It's dead forever in that case.

Once you've been recovered home and recharged your injured battery, or if it failed to hold a load and your club mates have ridden back to your stranded ass with a new battery from the nearest shop, you gotta work out if it was just the battery, or something else.

If you just replace the battery and the regulator is at fault.....the same thing will happen in about 200 miles. Gets expensive, just replacing the battery if that's only the symptom, not the fault....but then, sometimes the battery AND regulator will commit suicide together. It's a lottery as to the death toll ...


REGULATOR CHECK

Do the battery voltage one (see above) with the new battery in place and the engine running.

Delve further......

Ignition off. Undo the regulator plug from the case where it meet the stator pins. Set the voltmeter to DC volts. Insert red meter pin into one of the female regulator plug terminals, place black lead on good ground i.e. the engine cases. Do the same to both regulator pins.

If you get any reading above a couple of volts, the regulator diodes are buggered and allowing the battery voltage, and no doubt plenty of alternator output when running, to leak to earth.....last year I had a regulator-plug reading of 12 volts!!

The same test can be done with the regulator ground wire (if equipped) or with meter pins placed between unbolted regulator and ground.

For some reason, this leak-to-ground fault does NOT always show with a test light. Be warned. It cost me £120 to discover that. Use the voltmeter.

ALTERNATOR CHECKS

The alternator puts out (hey!) Alternating Current, which the regulator/rectifier, to give it its full name, rectifies to the more useful Direct Current .
First do an AC voltage output test.

UNPLUG the regulator at the crankcase where it connects to the stator pins.

Set the multimeter to the AC voltage setting just higher than the figures we need and start the bike, which you can do now it has a known good battery. Place each meter lead into each stator plug peeking out of the crankcase. Unless you have long arms, you might need a friend here...

You should be getting around 20-26 AC volts at 1,000revs. The exact amount depends on the amperage of your bike's charging system (Read The Ferkin Manual).

But the critical thing is that if you have around 20 AC volts at 1000rpm, then you must get 40 or thereabouts at 2000rpm, something like 60 at 3000rpm......get the picture? If there is weak output or no output, you're gong to be RTFM a whole lot more...

But be warned - even a good reading is no guarantee it's working. Read on.

Turn the engine off. Next check to see if the stator wiring is OK.

We are measuring resistance now. First thing you need to do is check your meter.

Turn the multimeter to the Ohms scale at its lowest reading (usually 20), and touch the Positive and Negative probes together. You may well get a resistance reading. For example, if it reads .4 ohms when you touch the probes together, you need to remember that. For when you put your meter probes across the stator winding, you might get a reading of say .6 ohms, but remember there's .4 ohms ''built in'' to the meter, so your stator is actually .2 ohms.

With motor off and regulator obviously unplugged from stator, connect meter's red lead to one stator pin in the insulation peeking out of the cases, and the black lead to a good ground on the bike (cases is good).

If you get a large ''1'' or ''I'' then a decimal point on the meter this is INFINITE resistance or no path to ground i.e. an open circuit. This is good.

If you get any other reading then you have a grounded stator winding and it will not produce good electricity. You will lose the ability to charge your battery. There may be enough voltage to keep the bike running with the lights off, but turn the lights on and the voltage disappears. The bike then begins to discharge the battery, slowly killing the power until it dies.

Do the same on the other pin. Same reading = good.

Now place each meter lead into each stator plug. There should be continuity (less than one ohm NET resistance, usually .2 to .4 ohms NET. Anything above that you have a open circuit. Anything below that spec. you have a short.

NOTE! A shorted out (or grounded) stator will produce the recommended AC voltage at given RPM's. However, it produces nearly zero amperage - the good stuff. So the resistance tests with meter set to Ohms are vital....

POOR CONNECTION

An intermittent arcing connection between the regulator plug and the stator female plugs is a common problem on pre-97 bikes. Make sure your bits fit tight. Watch for blackening on regulator pins. If the fit seems sloppy use a dielectric grease or spray to ensure a good connection.



BATTERIES...

...are a bastard. They can fail in many ways, some inexplicable and invisible to the eye or meter. But knowing the other bits which feed it are in good shape is valuable. Carry a voltmeter.

NEVER use a battery sold to you by a shop which promises at 10am that it will be ''charged and ready'' by 3pm. If it's not TRICKLE charged for at least 24 hours initially, it will never be 100% on the bike and its life will shorten. Take that voltmeter with you to the shop and test the battery before you pay for it...if it's below 12.7DCV, trickle charge it overnight at home before fitting it to bike. Trust no one as to its state of charge.

In recent years the MoCo has switched to sealed batteries. Jap shops sell them a whole lot cheaper. The beauty of these is there is no overflow tube to piss acid on to your frame, etc if things go haywire. Recommended.

Also, if you are running a kick-only bike, you can get away with a really small battery because few cranking amps are called for. I'm paying £25 for mine from Jap shops.....and using a block of wood and a bit of bicycle tyre tube to fill out the space in the tray!


(Hope this all helps someone as confused as I once was, stranded at the side of the road.....see you again there soon!......Dave)



__________________
coming to you live from Melbourne.....
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 17-09-2004, 07:57 AM
donna_chapman
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Troubleshooting your charging system

all good stuff dave
an additional point to remember
do not allow a lead acid battery to completely discharge this will result in the premature failure of the cells
batteries do discharge over time, so keep them happy over winter.
buy an optimate.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17-09-2004, 02:30 PM
dexter's Avatar
dexter dexter is offline
Non Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 284
Re: Troubleshooting your charging system

Brilliant, Dave

Thanks for spending the time, mate and for passing this on. Some of makes sense, some of it is beyond me, but it's all useful to someone.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17-09-2004, 09:46 PM
Spen
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Troubleshooting your charging system

Nice one ;D
As an ex RAF aircraft techie I understood every word, but I feel sorry for those out there for who think that a carrot is technical and so have to have the stealership do every thing.
Apparently some folks even by their clothes there! ??? or so it seems.

Spen 8)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 23-08-2007, 02:42 AM
whatzleft
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Troubleshooting your charging system

Just wanted to say Thank-You Dave... that was a great post, I printed it out and followed it to a t! Really easy to understand. Ironically what I found was the same thing you said you found. When I unpluged my regulator going back to the stator I have 12v on the regulator side. And also as you said, a light tester didn't show it, but a voltmeter did. I replaced the regulator and have been cruising ever sense. I have this in my troubleshooting notes in my manual. You done really good dude, thanks again!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23-08-2007, 03:33 AM
Gogsy's Avatar
Gogsy Gogsy is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,515
Re: Troubleshooting your charging system

Nice one Dave,
but depends on whether you have 4 or 5 speed gearing....The 4 speeds and 5 speeds have slightly different specs, but general procedures are the same for all the alternator equipped models. You'll need an ac/dc volt meter at least, and an ohm meter. A load tester and some other tools are nice to have too.

1. Check battery voltage and specific gravity. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be working on your charging system. If the battery is not fully charged, charge it or replace it with a known good one, at least temporarily. Perform a load test on the battery. If you can't do that, make sure the battery is fully charged and have a shop load test it for you. Have the load set at 57 amps for 15 seconds. The battery is good if it maintains 9.6 dcv or better at the end of the 15 seconds. Now you have to recharge the battery before you go any further.

2. With the battery back in the bike, fully charged, check the voltage. It should be 12.6 to 12.8 dcv. This is for the older (pre 97) batteries that have fluid caps. The newer batteries that are sealed are considered fully charged when they have 13.0 dcv.

3. Did the battery terminal spark at all when you connected the battery cables? If so, and the key switch is off, you've got a static drain while the bike is sitting idle. I won't go into detail on how to find it, but basically a component is drawing current when everything should be turned off. You're not leaving the key in the acc position accidentally, right? You can have a static drain even if there's no spark, but a significant drain will create a small spark when you make the final battery connection (not a good thing if your freshly charged battery is still emitting hydrogen gas. BOOM!)

4. Turn on the lights, and apply the brakes, but don't start the bike. What is the battery voltage now? It should not be more than one volt less than it was with everything off. That's a poor man's load test. Not in the manual, just tossed it in for free.

5. Start the bike and run it at 2,000 rpm, or a very fast idle if you have no tach. What is the dcv at the battery now? It should be 13.5 - 14.5 dcv at 2,000 rpm. If not, you've got a charging problem. Since you have verified that the battery is ok in the previous steps, you know there's a component problem on the bike. It may be an actual component, or it may be the wiring between components, but it's not the battery. Wiring is a component too, but most people don't think of it that way. They think, regulator, stator, rotor, battery.

6. I'll skip the amp output test since most people don't have the instruments to measure more than 10 dc amps, in conjunction with a variable load to apply to the battery to maintain a constant 13.0 dcv during the amp test. That's not to say the amp output shouldn't be done...

7. Check the regulator ground. From the regulator case to the battery negative terminal should be less than 1 ohm. If not, clean the grounds and start over.

8. Check the resistance of the stator windings. Sounds like you did that. Use the specs in the manual for your bike. Also check for a stator that's shorted to ground. It would suck for the alternator to be making good acv, but sending it all straight to ground. If you find a problem with the resistance in the windings, or you have a short to ground, it's time to remove the primary cover and take a closer look.

9. Check the ac output from the stator. If you've got ac output, and the regulator is properly grounded, and you've got a good battery, and the connections are all good, then you've got a bad regulator. The stator/rotor (referred to as an alternator) are putting out ac voltage, but the regulator is not properly converting it to dc, or it's converting it properly, but is shunting it to ground, or the regulator is internally open. In any case, the regulator is NFG. Get a new one installed and start over.

10. That's about it, I think.see ya on the road
__________________
Click here to contact me.

You may mock what you don't understand but fear what you'll never become. Utrinque Paratus.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 21-09-2007, 03:31 PM
dynamet1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Troubleshooting your charging system

Just a word of caution before you do all this! (and tend to look on the black side) My optimate was showing the red light for "Desulphating" just lately when put on charge after a night out and was after a day or even longer going onto the red "weak battery" light. After spraying the connector from the optimate to battery with some WD40 - all seems to be ok now. Doh!!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-11-2007, 08:16 PM
kiwidave's Avatar
kiwidave kiwidave is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,286
Re: Charging System Checks.

hmmmmm.......that American Iron file is partly helpful but assumes if you get good AC voltage from the alternator, then the alternator is OK.

NOPE. it could still be shorted........
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-02-2008, 11:14 AM
Baff's Avatar
Baff Baff is offline
Membership Secretary
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,649
Check your battery bolts, stupid

My ongoing starting problems MAY be solved. I'd tried everything on this thread, and was at my wit's end. I was even about to have the rebuilt starter motor -re-rebuilt as I could hear the solonoid pushing across. The optimate showed green, the battery was at 13v, but STILL Monster didn't want to go.

Then, last night, after moving her around in the garage whilst I was doing other things, I saw the optimate was red. Stuck in the key, pressed the button, and nothing EXCEPT a puff of smoke from under the seat. Ah ha! This was something new. Off comes the seat, press the button again and another puff of smoke.

You've probably guessed by now. The battery bolt was loose. DOH! A quick spannering, and at the next push of the button, she roared once more.

I assume that the loose connection allowed trickle-charging from the optimate, but not the huge current from the battery to the starter, hence the green light but lack of umph under load when the button was pushed.

The moral of this story? Check battery connections before going through the other checks on the OP. I know I'd tightened them before the Suzie's Cafe meet a couple of weeks ago, so it must've loosened off on the 130 miles I did that day.

I've ordered Spyke battery cables anyway, to ensure the best possible current gets to the starter from now on.

Just in time to get a ride out in this glorious sunshine.

Baff
__________________
Sir Thomas Beecham is reported to have said to a female cellist who was having a particularly poor rehearsal, "Madam, you have between your legs an instrument capable of giving pleasure to thousands, and all you can do is scratch it!".

大麻

Peter Cook said "I have learned from my mistakes, and I am sure I can repeat them exactly".

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 19-02-2008, 06:30 PM
BaZa®'s Avatar
BaZa® BaZa® is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 42,980
Re: Troubleshooting your charging system

001.jpg
__________________________
__________________
..in vino veritas....“in wine [there is the] truth"




Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:04 PM.


The Harley-Davidson Riders Club of Great Britain

The Harley Davidson Riders Club Great Britain has no official connection to the Harley-Davidson Motor Company, we just ride their motorcycles and support the brand. All trademarks are acknowledged


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0