The Harley-Davidson Riders Club Great Britain

+++ HARLEY-DAVIDSON RIDERS CLUB GREAT BRITAIN - ESTABLISHED 1949 +++


Go Back   The Harley-Davidson Riders Club Great Britain > Technical > Tech-Tips
©2000-2012 Harley-Davidson Riders Club

Tech-Tips Useful Tips

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-03-2012, 09:58 PM
Foxster's Avatar
Foxster Foxster is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,977
How to do a Smart tune with a SEPST

How to do a Smart tune with a SEPST

Coupla notes before we get started:

The HD documentation and the SEPST software interface are notoriously poor. So, I thought I’d write a simple-ish step-by-step guide for newbies.

This is about using the Screamin’ Eagle Pro Super Tuner, not other models like the SERT or TTS.

As well as the SEPST’s VCI interface box itself, you will also need the separately purchased software and interface leads. Available at your local dealer or online.

You can use Smart tune with a dyno or on its own – I’ll be covering using it without a dyno. You won’t get perfect results this way but it’ll be pretty darn good.

Why Smart Tune?
When you swap out the hardware on a Harley you get changes in the flow of air and fuel. Using Smart tune you can get the bike to tune itself to something close to the optimal air fuel ratios, these having been altered by a change in air cleaner, exhaust, throttle body, cams, etc.

Summary
I’ll cover:
• Loading a base calibration
• Recording data
• Using Smart tune to change the base calibration
• Reflashing the ECU with the changed calibration

Loading a base calibration (AKA “map”)

I’m assuming you know enough to install the SEPST software and start it. It comes with instructions for this. Note: this whole thing is much easier using a laptop because you can get it near your bike.

You need the SEPST software in "Tuning mode: Advanced" to do this (setup option).

1. Once you have the main SEPST screen up, select “Tuning” (the tuning fork icon).

2. Hit “Manually Select File” and navigate to the appropriate directory where the software installed the canned maps (.dt0 files). This is typically in “C:\Program Data\Super Tuner\Delphi\Tuning Files\Big Twins\”. You will need to plough through a long list of maps. The details for the map will be displayed if you click on a file name.

3. Select the map that most closely matches your hardware. For instance, if you have a stage 2 Fat Bob with SE204 cams then you’d want the 176ST002.dt0 map. Unfortunately, HD doesn’t supply maps for non-Harley hardware so if you have non-Harley hardware then it’s a matter of making the closest guess. Generally, the stage 1 maps are fine for any stage 1 hardware; after that it gets tricky.

Connecting the VCI to your bike and laptop

4. Turn off the bike.

5. Pull off the battery cover on the left side of the bike. Here you will find an oblong grey connector with a black rubber bung in the end. Slide the grey connector out of its slot and take out the black bung.

6. Insert the correct VCI lead into the grey connector.

7. Connect the other lead from the VCI to your laptop’s USB port.

Uploading the new map into the bike

8. Try not to spend too long on the next part because your ignition and headlight will be on but the engine won’t be running and this will flatten your battery after 30 mins or so.

9. Turn on your bike’s ignition switch and have the Run/Stop switch set to Run but don’t fire up the engine!

10. If the connections are all good then you should see the previously greyed-out “Reflash” icon (the bike with lightning) has now become active. If not, then you need to check the connections again and maybe read the SEPST help files relating to connecting up the VCI.

11. Press the “Reflash” icon.

12. On the next screen under “Programming Status” there are two radio buttons; make sure both “Enable Smart tune Reflash” and “Reset Adaptive Fuel” are selected.

13. Hit “Program ECM Cal” and click “OK” to confirm.

14. Do not mess about with anything now! You can screw up your bike if you do. Just sit on your hands.

15. When “Flash Update Process Complete” is displayed, follow the instructions on the screen exactly: Turn off the ignition and wait 10 seconds.

16. Click "OK" to clear the message.

Great. The bike now has a nice new calibration/map loaded that matches your hardware. Next step is to tune this in for your bike.

Recording data

You still have the VCI all connected up, right?

17. Turn the ignition switch back on.

18. Click the “Toolbox” icon (looks like a toolbox, duh).

19. If things are connected up OK then the bottom three icons on the left of the screen will now be available.

20. Select the “VCI Data Record” icon.

21. At the next screen (“VCI Data Record”), click “VCI Record Start”.

22. Follow the instructions and, when prompted, turn off the bike and disconnect the VCI from the laptop but not the bike.

23. The VCI has to stay on the bike. So find somewhere to tape it up or bung it in a pannier.

24. Get geared up and ready to spend an hour out on the road. You want a nice long, quiet stretch of road where you can drive safely and uninterrupted at all road speeds in all gears. Finding this road is one of the hardest bits of the tuning process.

25. Don’t start recording until the engine is warm.

26. When you reach your “test track”, pull over and leave the engine running.

27. Press the button once on the VCI. The light should start to flash.

28. Now ride the bike in all gears and at all speeds and at all throttle openings. Try to cover as much variation in driving conditions as you can. The SEPST only records at steady speed, so hold each speed/gear for about 10 seconds. You will be able to record for about an hour, which is usually plenty of time to get bored. Don’t forget to just ride the bike for a while like you normally would too, trying to cover around-town and highway riding.

29. LEAVE THE BIKE RUNNING – if you turn off now all your riding time will be wasted!

30. Once you are finished capturing data and/or are back home LEAVE THE BIKE RUNNING!

31. Press the button on the SEPST once. The light becomes steady.

32. Now you can turn off the bike.

Getting the recorded data from the bike

33. Reconnect the SEPST to your laptop. Turn on the bike’s ignition switch.

34. In the SEPST “Toolbox” menu on the “VCI Data Record” screen, select the “Download data” tab.

35. Download the recorded data following the prompts on the screen. Make a note of the filename of the saved data e.g. scribble down something like:
“VCI_121-124211_7.hdx: first data run recorded on March 1st 2012 with new stage 2 hardware fitted, driving about the A14 and the airfield”.

OK so far? You’ve done the hard bit and now all you need to do is merge the recorded data into the canned map you chose earlier, stick this onto the bike and Robert’s your Mum’s brother!

36. If you turned off your laptop then fire it up again, run the SEPST software and load the map you used before, it cannot be a different map with different settings. See steps 1 to 3 above.

37. Go to the “Tuning” screen and click on the “+” signs to expand the “VE Front Cyl” and “VE Rear Cyl” displays on the left of the screen so that you can see “Working”, “Last Saved”, “Original” and “Smart tune” under them.

38. Click and drag the “Working” version of the “VE Front Cyl” table into the lower half of the big space over to the right, selecting the “Display as table” option as you let the mouse button go.

39. Click and drag the “Smart tune” version of the “VE Front Cyl” table into the upper half of the big space over to the right, selecting the “Display as table” option as you let the mouse button go. It doesn’t matter really which cylinder you do first or which two of the four windows you use. Drag and stretch the two windows you used so you can see the tables in both.

40. In the “Smart tune, VE Front Cyl” window, click “Add New...” and use the dialogue file box to locate the file of data you saved in step 35 and open it. You’ll get an error if you try to load a data file recorded using a different map. In the future you might have several sessions’ worth of recorded data and you can open them all now.

41. Now hit “Generate”. It’ll take a little while to generate the new VE table.

42. When it’s finished generating, the “Please wait” disappears and the “Update” button will no longer be greyed out.

43. Check the modified cells in the “Smart tune” table. The ones that the tuning session got data updates for are shown. The actual contents aren’t terribly important at this level of tuning. What is of interest though is the range of the cells you have managed to get data for. You’ll probably have a rash of cells across the middle of the table and not much at the extremes. That’s OK if you did your usual riding as there will be data for that. The cells with no updates are what you missed on your ride and you might want to repeat this all later and try to hit some of those throttle position v RPM combos.

44. Once you are bored with looking at that, hit “Update”.

45. Look now at the “Working” table. The cells to be changed are highlighted in turquoise.

46. Repeat steps 38 to 45 for the other cylinder.

47. Save your modified map by hitting the “Save As...” button on the top right of the screen. Try to give it a useful name, like “176ST002 with first data run made on 1 March 2012.dt0”.

Getting your new tuned map into the bike

48. Make sure you have your modified map selected on the “Tuning” screen if you have more than one map open.

49. Now reflash the ECM as you did in steps 8 to 16, except do not select “Enable Smart Tune Reflash” but do select “Reset Adaptive Fuel”.

50. Follow the on-screen steps like you did before. Then turn off the bike, disconnect everything and wait at least 10 secs before starting the bike.

And that’s all there is to it! You will now have a tuned map in the bike that matches your hardware.

I’d really appreciate anyone familiar with the SEPST to check my work and provide feedback. Happy tuning!

Last edited by Foxster; 05-05-2012 at 03:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-03-2012, 10:33 AM
grbrown grbrown is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,020
Thumbs up Re: How to do a Smart tune with a SEPST

This is the first time I have come across any info on this, so well done Foxster!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 13-06-2013, 10:31 AM
zoot's Avatar
zoot zoot is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 193
Re: How to do a Smart tune with a SEPST

Sorry for resurrecting such an old thread, but it seemed the perfect place to ask:

As I understand it, a smart tune sets all the AFR values to the magic "closed loop" value of 14.6 and then uses the closed-loop feedback observations during the run to calculate the VE at each point in the map. The idea being that when the values are changed to something other than 14.6, it can use the VE values discovered using the O2 sensors at 14.6 to calculate the correct injection values to get the desired AFR in open-loop.

My question is; when you upload a calibration for smart-tuning, as well as resetting all (most?) of the AFR values to 14.6 (closed-loop setting), does it also reset the CLB values? I would hope so, because otherwise it will calculating the VE values assuming that it is measuring 14.6 but is actually measuring something else entirely (let's assuming lower). So if it is actually running richer in closed-loop during smart-tune, the VE values will be higher than they should be. So when I set a conservative open-loop AFR value of say 14.5, the too-high VE value will mean that my actual realised AFR will be again considerably less than the desired 14.5.

So in order for the open-loop operation to reflect the AFR values I have put in the table correctly, and CLB to only affect the realised AFR during closed-loop, should I manually reset my CLB values before starting a smart-tune, or is that all taken care of by the software?

EDIT: Also, I haven't seen much in the way of research into what the minimum safe idle RPM is. Any pointers? The more opportunities for lowering engine temp at the lights in central London the better!

EDIT2: And another thing: I know that you have to leave the ignition and run switch on at the end of a smart-tune run. But does the engine need to be running? Can I pull up at home and then (for example) use the stand sensor whilst in gear to kill the engine without turning the run switch off?

EDIT3: Ah. In case others are wondering, I suspect the reason why it retards the timing during smart-tunes is to avoid excessive detonation when running so lean. I'm wondering what effect this has on the VE values it comes up with. Hmm...

Last edited by zoot; 13-06-2013 at 05:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15-06-2013, 08:20 PM
zoot's Avatar
zoot zoot is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 193
Re: How to do a Smart tune with a SEPST

Whilst waiting for any useful replies, I've done some more research:

It looks like the most recent version of the software actually "hides away" the CLB table and instead will allow you to set lower AFR values and still flag them as "closed loop". That being the case, these should work as I expect. I'll get my wallet out.

My bike idles at 1k. I've seen some research that suggests that as long as you are above 900rpm, you are OK from a battery load point of view. (At 900rpm, the battery voltage drops off, so the load is overwhelming the alternator.) But I'd still like to know if an idle RPM of 950rpm (say) is enough to keep the oil moving. It's only a /little/ under 1k, so I'm assuming it's going to be fine.

New questions:

Does anybody ever try to tune the timing without a dyno? Can it be done (reliably/safely)? I'm assuming that if the optimum detonation is around 20deg ATDC, and that the knock sensor is only detecting detonation from BTDC thru very shortly afterwards, it is difficult to use the knock sensor to find the optimum point?

Also, I've seen mentioned on hdforums.com a product called MyTune (MyTune - Harley Davidson EFI Tuning Software for Super Tuner (SEST), Race Tuner (SERT), TTS and TwinScan II+). It apparently helps with setting up the calibration. But I can't see how, specifically. Apparently it can interpret the knock retardation and come up with timing improvements. But if I'm not trying to aggressively improve the timing, are there any other benefits? How about when it comes to smart-tuning? Can it improve the VE table better or faster than the SEPST smart-tune alone?

Thanks again for any help
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15-06-2013, 08:40 PM
Foxster's Avatar
Foxster Foxster is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,977
Re: How to do a Smart tune with a SEPST

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoot View Post
Sorry for resurrecting such an old thread, but it seemed the perfect place to ask:

As I understand it, a smart tune sets all the AFR values to the magic "closed loop" value of 14.6 and then uses the closed-loop feedback observations during the run to calculate the VE at each point in the map. The idea being that when the values are changed to something other than 14.6, it can use the VE values discovered using the O2 sensors at 14.6 to calculate the correct injection values to get the desired AFR in open-loop.

My question is; when you upload a calibration for smart-tuning, as well as resetting all (most?) of the AFR values to 14.6 (closed-loop setting), does it also reset the CLB values? I would hope so, because otherwise it will calculating the VE values assuming that it is measuring 14.6 but is actually measuring something else entirely (let's assuming lower). So if it is actually running richer in closed-loop during smart-tune, the VE values will be higher than they should be. So when I set a conservative open-loop AFR value of say 14.5, the too-high VE value will mean that my actual realised AFR will be again considerably less than the desired 14.5.

So in order for the open-loop operation to reflect the AFR values I have put in the table correctly, and CLB to only affect the realised AFR during closed-loop, should I manually reset my CLB values before starting a smart-tune, or is that all taken care of by the software?
A question I asked myself a while ago too.

Afraid I don't have an answer. What I have read on that there Interweb is conflicting. Some have said you do need to set the CLBs to 450, others have said you do not as Smart Tune mode handles that.

My take is that if you had to do this then the manual would tell you to do so. It doesn't.

Best I can offer.

Quote:
EDIT: Also, I haven't seen much in the way of research into what the minimum safe idle RPM is. Any pointers? The more opportunities for lowering engine temp at the lights in central London the better!
I have mine at 976 and it feels fine. No missing. I am probably going to take it up one notch to 984 though, occasionally makes my teeth chatter at lights at 976.

Quote:
EDIT2: And another thing: I know that you have to leave the ignition and run switch on at the end of a smart-tune run. But does the engine need to be running? Can I pull up at home and then (for example) use the stand sensor whilst in gear to kill the engine without turning the run switch off?
Again - dunno. I strap the SEPST orange box to the bike by the battery cover and so its only a matter of leaning down and pressing the button, so its not really a problem for me.

Quote:
EDIT3: Ah. In case others are wondering, I suspect the reason why it retards the timing during smart-tunes is to avoid excessive detonation when running so lean. I'm wondering what effect this has on the VE values it comes up with. Hmm...
Probably. And to stop the anti-knock kicking in a messing things up. Shouldn't think it would alter the AFR readings it takes too much.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 15-06-2013, 09:00 PM
Foxster's Avatar
Foxster Foxster is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,977
Re: How to do a Smart tune with a SEPST

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoot View Post

It looks like the most recent version of the software actually "hides away" the CLB table and instead will allow you to set lower AFR values and still flag them as "closed loop". That being the case, these should work as I expect. I'll get my wallet out.
Ah, tried that myself and got the 2013 software. Didn't work.

The newer ECUs (2013+ models?) have lambda calibrations as opposed to AFR calibrations. So, instead of tuning around an AFR of 14.6, you tune around a lambda of 1.0. This is so that it automatically accounts for different fuels where the AFRs of lambda are different e.g. pure petrol versus E10.

If you don't have the right ECU then you don't get to use the lambda calibrations and it's these that have the ability to set the AFR directly for closed loop rather than needing the frig of CLB tables.

Quote:

Does anybody ever try to tune the timing without a dyno? Can it be done (reliably/safely)? I'm assuming that if the optimum detonation is around 20deg ATDC, and that the knock sensor is only detecting detonation from BTDC thru very shortly afterwards, it is difficult to use the knock sensor to find the optimum point?
I spent a while last summer messing with this. I adjusted the advance a couple of degrees across the piece three times and recorded data after each change. I was looking for when I got more knocking.

Didn't have a lot of luck. The anti-knock was kicking in more but I just didn't know how much was acceptable.

Then there was the worry that if I wasn't able to get high octane fuel (as often happens in the sticks), would I have so much pinging going on I was harming the engine?

Then there is that, without a dyno, I had no real idea whether my timing changes were doing any good.

In the end I put my usual stage-2 map back and shelved the idea until I feel like getting some more dyno time.

Quote:
Also, I've seen mentioned on hdforums.com a product called MyTune (MyTune - Harley Davidson EFI Tuning Software for Super Tuner (SEST), Race Tuner (SERT), TTS and TwinScan II+). It apparently helps with setting up the calibration. But I can't see how, specifically. Apparently it can interpret the knock retardation and come up with timing improvements. But if I'm not trying to aggressively improve the timing, are there any other benefits? How about when it comes to smart-tuning? Can it improve the VE table better or faster than the SEPST smart-tune alone?
Heard of it. Have no experience.

Personally I like to book an hour at slow times at a dyno down the road. Then I play with the AFRs. That's my plan for the timing too at some point.

Doing this stuff without a dyno feels like shooting in the dark.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15-06-2013, 09:25 PM
zoot's Avatar
zoot zoot is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 193
Re: How to do a Smart tune with a SEPST

Thanks again Foxster. All very useful. Seek me out at the next rally for a beer on me.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24-09-2013, 04:45 PM
mightytharg mightytharg is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 100
Re: How to do a Smart tune with a SEPST

Thanks for this darned useful guide.

I've decided to go for a SE cam swap anyway but decided to play with the autotune first on my 'stage 1' build just to get some experience.

This guide is now spreading to the american forums - noticed it there when looking up tuning info.

Cheers
__________________
Street Glide - like a motorcycle, but one that's been smothered in Awesome Sauce!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 24-09-2013, 07:45 PM
Foxster's Avatar
Foxster Foxster is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,977
Re: How to do a Smart tune with a SEPST

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm going to do an update to this some time soon because I've been playing with some newish features of the SEPST software that can make auto-tuning a lot easier.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24-09-2013, 08:24 PM
mightytharg mightytharg is offline
Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 100
Re: How to do a Smart tune with a SEPST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxster View Post
Thanks for the feedback.

I'm going to do an update to this some time soon because I've been playing with some newish features of the SEPST software that can make auto-tuning a lot easier.
Fantastic - look forward to it.

So far I have to say very pleased with the SEPST - bike now running better than when default map put on by the dealer. Plus I've lowered idle a little and switched the ACR back on.

I even tried the EITMS switched on but hated it so it's back off again.
__________________
Street Glide - like a motorcycle, but one that's been smothered in Awesome Sauce!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:22 AM.


The Harley-Davidson Riders Club of Great Britain

The Harley Davidson Riders Club Great Britain has no official connection to the Harley-Davidson Motor Company, we just ride their motorcycles and support the brand. All trademarks are acknowledged


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0