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  #11  
Old 10-02-2007, 10:30 PM
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Re: Oil Cooler,Just how necessary

I’m sorry weedavie_j to jump in on this conversation, but your last statement about the 20/50 and 50/50 oil is totally wrong and a very dangerous statement to make!!

Engine oil is a precise engineering product just like today’s engine’s (Harley’s included) if you put 50/50 oil where 20/50 should be you run the risk of seriously damaging the engine, the numbers represent how thick the oil is cold and at it’s max temperature.

To explain this if you were to take say 20/50 oil and but it in a tin with a small hole in the bottom when the oil is cold you would get 20 drops a minute, because the oil is thick, now the same oil in the same tin but the oil heated to it’s operating temperature would run out of the bottom of the tin at 50 drops per minute, because it is much thinner, so if you but the wrong oil in an engine and the clearance on your big end was only suitable for a 20/50 oil, imagine what would happen if you put 50/50 in???? this much thinner oil would not take up the clearance in your engine and would therefore knock out your big ends sooner rather than later.

If you did it the other way around then the thicker oil wouldn’t be able to lubricate your crank journal at all because it would be to thick to get in to the clearance required and seizure would be imminent, you could argue that a worn engine would not suffer as much, but nevertheless you should always use the correct velocity oil for a particular engine!!!! It is also a fact that today’s modern engines are designed to drink a certain amount of oil even from new.

Now regarding Harleys getting hot I have been informed that the TC engine will stick higher temperatures, however since I have fitted a Mikune carb 1550 pistons screamin eagle heads and cams ect and then had it tuned by an expert on a Dyno I have noticed that my engine runs a lot cooler even in the heat of the Mediterranean,

It is a fact that Harley have to screw there engines in to the ground to make them meet European and American standards, if you have the latest 1550 EFI model it is recommended (not by Harley or they would be admitting to a fault in there engine tuning) you have a new aftermarket power-commander fitted and tuned by a competent person on a Dyno, I know someone who can do it and he charges about £450 all in, it will put years of life in your engine, give you a hell of a lot more BHP,(no sh1t) your motor will run smoother cooler and combined with the right oil run much happier!!!!

Ukkid76

Last edited by Ukkid76; 11-02-2007 at 09:08 AM.
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  #12  
Old 11-02-2007, 09:45 AM
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Re: Oil Cooler,Just how necessary

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Originally Posted by Ukkid76 View Post
To explain this if you were to take say 20/50 oil and but it in a tin with a small hole in the bottom when the oil is cold you would get 20 drops a minute, because the oil is thick, now the same oil in the same tin but the oil heated to it’s operating temperature would run out of the bottom of the tin at 50 drops per minute, because it is much thinner, so if you but the wrong oil in an engine and the clearance on your big end was only suitable for a 20/50 oil, imagine what would happen if you put 50/50 in???? this much thinner oil would not take up the clearance in your engine and would therefore knock out your big ends sooner rather than later.
I've probably misunderstood your point Mate. but I think you mean higher SAE numbers are less viscosity i.e SAE 50 oil is thinner than a 20/50 multigrade. Which is base about apex. Have a read of this, it'll sort it all out for you. .http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:09 AM
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Re: Oil Cooler,Just how necessary

Yep I’ve read it, go to that site and select page 6 ‘PHYSICAL PROPERTIES PERFORMANCE RESULTS AND PRICES’ and just have a read, I’m not talking about synthetic oils cos I don’t know how they work!! I have been told however that if your bike has run on standard good old fashioned engine oil and has covered a number of miles it probably isn’t a good idea to change over to a fully synthetic oil!!

All I was trying to say is it isn’t advisable to put a 50/50 grade oil in to an engine that is designed and machined for a 20/50 oil…………

Ukkid76
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  #14  
Old 11-02-2007, 10:33 AM
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Re: Oil Cooler,Just how necessary

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All I was trying to say is it isn’t advisable to put a 50/50 grade oil in to an engine that is designed and machined for a 20/50 oil…………
Agreed Mate. Do you mean SAE 50? I'm not familiar with the term 50/50. Don't know about TCs but the EVO is supposed to use straight 50 weight if the lowest ambient temperature is above 60 degrees F and straight 60 weight if above 80 F, but not for cold starts at less than 50 F.
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Old 11-02-2007, 07:57 PM
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Re: Oil Cooler,Just how necessary

Just my two cents worth. We run around all summer in temps way over 100 degrees without any problem. An oil cooler is a good thing, but not necessary.
I would never run anything except 20-50 in an Evo or Twin Cam.
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Old 11-02-2007, 09:21 PM
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Re: Oil Cooler,Just how necessary

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Just my two cents worth. We run around all summer in temps way over 100 degrees without any problem. An oil cooler is a good thing, but not necessary.
I would never run anything except 20-50 in an Evo or Twin Cam.
I agree about the use of 20-50 in Evo and TC engines.

I don't agree with what you say about coolers not being necessary in my personal experience of my Ultraglide.
What I can't get the hang of is why overheating is not a problem in the USA. OK, when I've experienced it the temperatures were in the +40c range (over 100F) it ran way too hot. The oil temperature soared and the oil pressure dropped. All I can thing of is that the fuel mapping or ignition timing could be different or that the fuel was of an inferior octane making it run even leaner (although from memory I don't remember you getting high octane in the USA).

Any ideas?
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  #17  
Old 11-02-2007, 10:03 PM
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Re: Oil Cooler,Just how necessary

Hi Phil. A Harley engine is designed to operate optimally between 110 (43) & 135 (55) degrees. Anything less than that the oil is not fully warmed up (boiling of impurities etc.). My Dyna seldom gets above that even in mid summer. No doubt it can get above that in a loaded bagger. In that case a THERMOSTATIC oil cooler would be an advantage.
To be honest the point I was making is that even if engines here do get a little hotter here it doesn`t seem to do them any harm, at least in my experience.
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:40 PM
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Re: Oil Cooler,Just how necessary

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Originally Posted by girlyglide View Post
I agree about the use of 20-50 in Evo and TC engines.

I don't agree with what you say about coolers not being necessary in my personal experience of my Ultraglide.
temperatures were in the +40c range (over 100F) it ran way too hot. The oil temperature soared and the oil pressure dropped.
I presume your Ultra is a TC. My Evo Ultra eGlide ran right through Italy North to South in temperatures of 40 degrees Cent. and the oil pressure still read 20 lb except in traffic when it dropped to 5 lb just like it does in England at more modest temperatures. If the pressure stays at a reasonable level does that mean an oil cooler is unnecessary?
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Old 12-02-2007, 09:07 AM
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Re: Oil Cooler,Just how necessary

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Originally Posted by Gray View Post
I presume your Ultra is a TC. My Evo Ultra eGlide ran right through Italy North to South in temperatures of 40 degrees Cent. and the oil pressure still read 20 lb except in traffic when it dropped to 5 lb just like it does in England at more modest temperatures. If the pressure stays at a reasonable level does that mean an oil cooler is unnecessary?
Hi Gray
My Ultra is an Evo. We have taken in to the South of France (many times), Italy (three times), Sicily (once) and all the way through Europe to Turkey and back. On each of these trips the motorcycle would suffer from overheating and falling oil pressure as the ambient air temperature increased.

Since fitting an oil cooler without a thermostat the situation has improved considerably. With this fitted the engine reaches normal operating temperature in about the same time (even in winter).

In answer to your question an oil cooler is not neccessary if your engine is maintaining correct oil pressure.
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  #20  
Old 12-02-2007, 09:26 AM
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Re: Oil Cooler,Just how necessary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phild View Post
Hi Phil. A Harley engine is designed to operate optimally between 110 (43) & 135 (55) degrees. Anything less than that the oil is not fully warmed up (boiling of impurities etc.). My Dyna seldom gets above that even in mid summer. No doubt it can get above that in a loaded bagger. In that case a THERMOSTATIC oil cooler would be an advantage.
To be honest the point I was making is that even if engines here do get a little hotter here it doesn`t seem to do them any harm, at least in my experience.
Hi Phil
I too have a Dyna Twin Cam carb model. This bike doesn't suffer from any problems from heat either. I have ridden this bike in temperatures over 40C as well. The Ultra is an injection model and in my experience of this model they run too lean. It's had the StageII upgrade and associated remapping.

Guess we are all singing from the same hymn sheet. An oil cooler is a good thing if you are suffering from high engine temperatures and thinning oil.
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