hot starting and oil spew

my questions and experiences are forever accumulating. firstly hot starting. bike (shovel) has lately become a nightmare to start when hot. cold/warm it'll kick up without too much hassle. but if the engine is hot and switched off for several-to-tens of minutes and then attempt to start i'm sometimes left kicking for ages and ages. i've always managed to get it going. but today it simply wouldn't go, at the local hd shop (convenient place to breakdown) i had to get a bump start. which it fired up instantly with a small bump.

i know an electric start would solve the problem, as it'd have better rotation and aid firing. but i'm content with kick only, if i can get it reliable. electronic ignitions? again any thoughts experiences on this one much appreciated.

also whilst i'm there kicking, and kicking. the bike is spewing oil out of the breather/overflow tube that comes from the oil pump. not sure exactly what the right name for it is. i was told this was normal, as the pump isn't turning fast enough to circulate the oil properly and it has to get rid. it only does this when i've been kicking it for ages, like 15-20 minutes or so.

my mot's expired, so nows the time to get on top of these little problems i've lived with whilst enjoying the bike for a couple of months.

again thanks for advice/experiences/info in advance.

laters, j.

[lambo]

my shovel on the kicker could be a bit tempremental , when cold 2 or 3 kicks with the ignition off then kick it over it would normally start 2 kicks ,when engine hot same sort of thing but allways needed choke hot or cold ,sometimes the engine would flood when I would close the choke open the throttle and kick 2or3 kicks it would start ,have you checked the timing I was told its best to have it slightly advanced for the kicker ,I ran mine for a couple of years on kick start only then got lazy and had my electric start rebuilt

[kiwidave]

Been there, done that.

Is your clutch slipping? Take the derby cover off **with engine hot/warm** and have a look as you kick it over.

If the kicker is not rotating the clutch drum much, you sure as hell are not going to get much of a turn on the flywheels either.

In my case, friction plates were well worn. Only really a leg-break issue with warm motor.

[zipps]

It might be worth while to check the points and condenser ,points will blue if faulty...15 to 20 mins. kicking a shovel.b****y hell.

thanks guys. yeah i had some romantic notion of keeping it kicker only. but like the majority of notions, it's starting to fade and i'm looking at electric starts

ignition is good. new coil, points, condensor. all set up o.k, no blueing etc. i'll investigate the clutch business. just might be slipping abit. the problem did appear to be just a case of not enough engine rotation. after it simply not kicking up for ages a short bump and it fired up no hassle.

what about the oil spew when i've been kicking it for ages, why is that, is it normal? doesn't do it when it starts within a kick or two.

[kevscrivener]

Originally Posted by jzk

thanks guys. yeah i had some romantic notion of keeping it kicker only. but like the majority of notions, it's starting to fade and i'm looking at electric starts


what about the oil spew when i've been kicking it for ages, why is that, is it normal? doesn't do it when it starts within a kick or two.

Kicking first. Forgive me if this sounds patronising, but much of it is down to practice and technique. Once you find a starting drill that suits YOUR bike (and they're all different) then assuming you've got it set up right, which sounds like the case, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about!

Now to the oil spew. Sounds to me like a regular problem, worn check valve in the oil pump. The cure's cheap and simple. First, go to an indie dealer and buy TWO of the ball bearings and ONE spring for the check valve. Remove the old check valve ball and spring and place gently in dustbin. Insert one new ball bearing, then put a small drift on top, and give the bearing ONE tap with a half-pound hammer. Using a magnet, remove that bearing, bin that as well and fit the second new bearing and the spring. Ride bike.

What this does is re-seats the check valve. The problem occurs when it gets worn and allows oil to drain into the crank-case; once there, it has to exit through the breather.

In the unlikely event that the problem re-occurs shortly afterwards, only then will you need to buy a new oil pump, 'cos the trick's been done too often before. Goes without saying that if you go to a dealership they would probably recommend this as the first step and they're not a cheap item.

[zipps]

And I think you can get a longer kick start lever.perhaps give you a bit more purchase...

[lambo]

clear the clutch first before you do anything,pull the clutch lever in and kick it over till you feel the clutch free itself ,simple but a much overlooked routine.

thanks for all the input guys.totally understand about the 'techique' aspect of kicking it. generally speaking;

cold = choke on, prime and kick and it starts usually within three kicks.
warm = choke on, no prime and kick and again it'll go within three.

hot, well if it hasn't started within three kicks (no choke, no prime) i'm there kicking with all varoius combinations of choke on/off primed/no prime. untill you've lost any concievable methodology to the approach in order to be able to repeat it, if/when it happens again.

lambo, i understand what you're saying about the clutch; engaging it and making sure it's free then disengaging it so it grips. but not sure how that helps.

regarding oil spew. it's supposidly a new oil pump. i got a receipt for one with the bike and an old pump, that looks o.k to me too. o.k. at least i know what is causing it and i'll go through the rectifying procedure as a matter of course.

hi i have a 1949 pan shovel chop with same prob when cold it starts 1st or 2nd kick but when its warm or hot not a sign of life any where did u manage
to get yours sorted and how or are you still having problems ? many thanks andrew with bad back tired leg and growing mental and physical fatigue.