Shovel primary?

[45grum]

Hello All
I'm back with more questions
I pulled the primary apart and I was wondering about the way engine oil is fed through the primary (Seems a bit strange), my last shovel which was a bit of a bitsa the primary feeds had been by-passed, what is best. I am tempted to run an open belt but I like the look of the primary (it fits the look of the bike).
Also the primary and final drive ratio's, I have been counting teeth and have got a crank sprocket with 24T a clutch basket with 37T a gearbox sprocket with 24T and a rear sprocket with 48T this set up feel very over-geared neading a lot of slipping of the clutch to pull away and a very high top gear (also the speedo reads very, low I reckon about 10%), I found a good 51T rear sprocket in one of my boxes of stuff which would lower the gearing a little but I was thinking of fitting a 23T crankshaft sprocket, how would this affect Kick starting (I think it should turn the engine a bit faster).
What is the standard sprocket set-up (primary and final).
Cheers in advance for any help, Graham.

[45grum]

Is this normal, seems like a lot of backlash in the shock absorber?

from that to this with no axial movement?

still wondering about the primary lube.
Cheers Graham.

[grbrown]

I had a 1974 FX, which had as best I recall a 23T crank sprocket and 24T gearbox.

Your overall gearing is currently:

37/24 x 48/24 = 3.08

which indeed sounds very high. That FX was 3.4 or thereabouts, which would still be a little high for your model. I would have thought around 3.8 to 4.0 would be more like.

By swapping numbers in the formula above you can see how different sprockets can change overall gearing. Plainly the 37T clutch is pretty well set in concrete!

If you have a larger rear wheel sprocket that will fit, that will help a little, but with smaller engine and gearbox sprockets you will get closer to a sensible setup, eg:

37/21 x 51/22 = 4.08

Looks as if either someone had a bag full of cheap sprockets, or very unreasonable expectations of the poor bike!

Hope that helps!

[grbrown]

That shock-absorber does not look healthy! I have never studied one closely, but that wear could be a result of running very high gearing. Looks like new parts are in order. See above!

The primary system on that generation was 'dry sump' for both crankcase and chaincase. So both primary chain and engine were fed oil which was then scavanged.

Problem was the clutch was supposed to be dry, which it only stayed if the primary chaincase was airtight, hence oil did not build up. I don't know the solution, but wouldn't be surprised if later friction plates, running in an oil bath, would work OK.

I do know, from first hand experience, that a wettened dry clutch doesn't work very well!

[45grum]

Thaks for the advice Graham. I will do some calcs and see what sprockets to run, I will see what the shock will cost to replace (maybe go for a belt?).
Cheers Graham.

[bazereid]

The Primary feed and return oiling system works very well if all the primary side is assembled correctly, I have run my Generator Shovel with this set up for 18 years and 100,000 miles plus with no with no problem. You just need to make sure that the casing is clean inside with no moving parts generating piles of swarf like the remains of that engine shock absorber in the photo. My advice is dont fit a primary belt drive on a shovel especially if you intend to keep the casing. A new chain with an M6 tensioner will be as effective, unburstable and cheaper. Oh and have fun with your gear ratios.

[Kiwi]

I ran a 89" stroker shovel with the factory system of using engine oil with no poblems at oil

Most poeple I knew who blocked off the factory system had a few problems withy slipping clutches - these problems were eventually sorted with running ATF and aftermarket clutch plates

[kiwidave]

I took quite a bit of advice about the OEM primary oiling set-up - engine oil lubes the primary chain, then is sucked back into the motor - and the consensus was that isolating the primary was a GOOD thing because the swarf from the primary should stay in there!

Interesting to note that the factory did just that with the Evo set-up.

I isolated the primary, blanking off feeds at the oil pump, and have ATF lubing the chain and, with stock clutch plates, am having no real problems at all.

[45grum]

Hi Dave
Cheers for the info.
How much ATF do you run in the primary (just enough to wet the chain?).
What gearing are you running?
Thanks Graham.

[kiwidave]

just enough to hit the bottom of the clutch pack with the bike upright. or maybe a bit less than that. Type F or G, not the Dextron style.

I don't know what gearing I have on the 1980, I will count the cogs when I have the primary off, maybe at the weekend! But it sure feels like the stock ''granny tranny'' set-up I have on the '85 FXEF, as first gear is real short i.e. you can only get about 100yards before you need to go to 2nd. I would love to invest in some Andrews gears one day which fixes this.

By the way, the ''wet clutch'' / ''dry clutch'' descriptions can seem misleading when addressing this issue. The 84-up ''wet'' clutch purely refers to an isolated primary in which a (shallow) bath of oil lubes the primary chain. The pre-Evo ''dry'' clutch, in stock configuration, still gets a bit wet, as oil from a pump feed lline drips on to the chain and hangs around the primary before being sucked out back to the engine.

There is no taboo about the dry clutch getting wet from a shut-off primary set-up, which copies the Evo. Hawg Ryder, the daddy of all gurus on the shovelhead.us site, told me when I was going through this very issue, that most folks don't even bother to change the plates to the wet OR dry Alto type, as in his considerable experience the stock dry shovel clutch plates *usually* work just fine with just a shallow slick of ATF in there.

But as Graham tells you, it doesn't always work for everyone.