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Thread: Cooling

  1. #21
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    Re: Cooling

    If you want to try it on the cheap get two of these and make up a bracket.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Elect...IAAOSwidlZZHNT
    Instant experts...... just add google.

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  2. #22
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    Re: Cooling

    Mr B has a motorcycle fan fitted into a Tesco saucepan where the horn was on his Softail, looks neat too.
    Urrell , Rep Region 23


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  3. #23
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    Re: Cooling

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzlin View Post
    Tune is Power Vision and there is nothing wrong with the tune, so let's eliminate this item as it's set on a Dyno with people I have used for years and the fueling graph is all good.
    That was your response when I suggested that the tune was not right. You want to eliminate the possibility of the tune being the problem because you've been using the same dyno for years. You say the graph is 'all good' but you think the pistons are expanding and causing too much friction within the bores to move and enable to motor to start. The combustion process is the source of that heat. The temperature of the combustion is dictated by the AFR and the compression ratio. AFR means air/fuel ratio. It's this ratio that determines how much power can be extracted from the fuel that burns within the combustion chamber. The stoichiometric ratio is the ratio at which the amount of oxygen present is exactly right to burn all of the fuel in the mixture - this is chemically perfect combustion and it occurs at 14.67:1 with petrol. Chemically perfect does not mean that it produces any power. An AFR below 14.7:1 is considered rich and runs cooler and above is considered lean which runs hotter. As the emissions regulations have been tightening up over the years HD has been running leaner maps in order to conform. Even though 14.7:1 is perfect, an engine will not last long at this ratio because of the intense heat generated. The closed loop target AFR for HD's stock narrow band sensors is 14.7:1. Open loop operation such as when the bike is in the enrichment mode (similar effect to choke) is 12:1. Idle AFR should be between 12-13:1 in my experience. Hard acceleration about 12.8-13.3 and cruise around 13.5-14:1. The introduction of catalytic converters came in around the same time as HD leaned out the AFR and they make the exhaust run even hotter. Then they came out with those little plastic shields on the tourers to stop your thighs cooking above the rear cylinder. Next was the introduction of a water channel to pump coolant around the exhaust valve seat. What next? These are sticking plasters which fail to address the source of the problem. They do nothing but cover up the symptoms of excessive combustion heat generated by too weak a mixture. They cannot address the cause of the problem due to emission standards so they and the aftermarket attempt to cover it up. Before I have a bike tuned I find out exactly what the customer wants out of it. You say your fuelling is 'all good'. All good for what? Maximum power or fuel economy? A tune designed for economy will produce less power, run hotter but be cheaper to run. Another tuned for maximum power will run cooler but be more costly. Yours is obviously not 'all good' for sitting idling in traffic. Some maps are set at 14.6:1 in the 1000 RPM idle area and others are set richer. Why don't you go into WinPV and have a look at yours in that area before dismissing the possibility of it being less than perfect?

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  4. #24
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    Re: Cooling

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Lane View Post
    That was your response when I suggested that the tune was not right. You want to eliminate the possibility of the tune being the problem because you've been using the same dyno for years. You say the graph is 'all good' but you think the pistons are expanding and causing too much friction within the bores to move and enable to motor to start. The combustion process is the source of that heat. The temperature of the combustion is dictated by the AFR and the compression ratio. AFR means air/fuel ratio. It's this ratio that determines how much power can be extracted from the fuel that burns within the combustion chamber. The stoichiometric ratio is the ratio at which the amount of oxygen present is exactly right to burn all of the fuel in the mixture - this is chemically perfect combustion and it occurs at 14.67:1 with petrol. Chemically perfect does not mean that it produces any power. An AFR below 14.7:1 is considered rich and runs cooler and above is considered lean which runs hotter. As the emissions regulations have been tightening up over the years HD has been running leaner maps in order to conform. Even though 14.7:1 is perfect, an engine will not last long at this ratio because of the intense heat generated. The closed loop target AFR for HD's stock narrow band sensors is 14.7:1. Open loop operation such as when the bike is in the enrichment mode (similar effect to choke) is 12:1. Idle AFR should be between 12-13:1 in my experience. Hard acceleration about 12.8-13.3 and cruise around 13.5-14:1. The introduction of catalytic converters came in around the same time as HD leaned out the AFR and they make the exhaust run even hotter. Then they came out with those little plastic shields on the tourers to stop your thighs cooking above the rear cylinder. Next was the introduction of a water channel to pump coolant around the exhaust valve seat. What next? These are sticking plasters which fail to address the source of the problem. They do nothing but cover up the symptoms of excessive combustion heat generated by too weak a mixture. They cannot address the cause of the problem due to emission standards so they and the aftermarket attempt to cover it up. Before I have a bike tuned I find out exactly what the customer wants out of it. You say your fuelling is 'all good'. All good for what? Maximum power or fuel economy? A tune designed for economy will produce less power, run hotter but be cheaper to run. Another tuned for maximum power will run cooler but be more costly. Yours is obviously not 'all good' for sitting idling in traffic. Some maps are set at 14.6:1 in the 1000 RPM idle area and others are set richer. Why don't you go into WinPV and have a look at yours in that area before dismissing the possibility of it being less than perfect?
    I'll have a look at that. Thanks
    Darren Thomas
    Member No:010141


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  5. #25
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    Re: Cooling

    Quote Originally Posted by Urrell View Post
    Mr B has a motorcycle fan fitted into a Tesco saucepan where the horn was on his Softail, looks neat too.
    It's still on there, working and looking good. I would have mentioned it earlier in this thread, but all the pictures have disappeared from my write up.

    I used a Yamaha R6 rad fan, fitted into a fabricated mounting, and topped off with a modified Tesco saucepan.

    NICK....it's a Road King I have....NOT a Softail, you should have known that...age and memory are strange things.

    Brian.
    100 Anniversary Road King Classic.

    Anglia Region 15 member.

    My old man always said if it has tits or tyres...it'll be trouble...and he was right.

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  6. #26
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    Re: Cooling

    Can you re-post some pics please?

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  7. #27
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    Re: Cooling

    Quote Originally Posted by Halal Tim View Post
    Can you re-post some pics please?
    I've still got all the pics from start to finish. I'll have a go at editing them into my original write up when I get the hang of it. I may need some help and guidance doing this.

    I can make anything from metal and repair anything mechanical....but, when it comes to computers....nah...not my thing.

    Brian.
    100 Anniversary Road King Classic.

    Anglia Region 15 member.

    My old man always said if it has tits or tyres...it'll be trouble...and he was right.

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  8. #28
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    Re: Cooling

    Interesting read Alex, thanks for elaborating. Is that effected by the petrol octane grade i.e. 95 98 RON ?
    A.K.A. Spankey
    Region 19 Representative.
    FLSTF 2007

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  9. #29
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    Jul 2005
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    Re: Cooling

    Quote Originally Posted by Halal Tim View Post
    Can you re-post some pics please?
    i'd like to see some pictures as well please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
    I've still got all the pics from start to finish. I'll have a go at editing them into my original write up when I get the hang of it. I may need some help and guidance doing this.

    I can make anything from metal and repair anything mechanical....but, when it comes to computers....nah...not my thing.

    Brian.
    is there a link to the original write up? i love anything like this.

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  10. #30
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    Re: Cooling

    Quote Originally Posted by chrissy View Post
    i'd like to see some pictures as well please?



    is there a link to the original write up? i love anything like this.
    http://www.harley-davidson-hangout.c...ey-cooling-fan

    I'll edit the original pictures back into this thread very soon.

    Brian.
    100 Anniversary Road King Classic.

    Anglia Region 15 member.

    My old man always said if it has tits or tyres...it'll be trouble...and he was right.

    Join the Harley-Davidson Riders Club Great Britain

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